Ordering for Practical Lessons

[Pm706Narrogin]

I feel you Seth. Our original plan (endorsed by HoD) was no pracs on the last day. This has morphed into 33 pracs for the final week (including 6 today). All up we're at 281 for Term 1. Even your 20 feels ridiculous for the final week.

I do think the final day should be either no pracs or at least no messy pracs or things that require washing up. Simple or easy to tidy things would be okay.

It's been pretty hectic trying to fit in cleaning the prep area and giving the labs a tidy. Thankfully there's 2 of us. I doubt one person would be able to get it all done

[macca]

Just after a quick answer on the time for ordering pracs., just on a normal week. 24 hours, 48 hours or longer notice?

Going into a meeting looking for as much information as I can.

Thanks

[RosalieL]

I ask for 3 school days because I only work 4 days/week. Sometimes I end up with only 2 periods notice... Anything that requires external ordering such as dissections I ask for 2 weeks. I usually get a fair amount of notice for assessment tasks.

[Labbie]

24 hours for any thing we are a big school.

[Pm706Narrogin]

Depends what they're ordering honestly.

If you want 10 tennis balls and 10 metre rulers that takes less than a minute to grab? I'll get that any time.

For most pracs, I'd set 24 hours' notice minimum. It helps with the flow (you're getting things for tomorrow ready today and so on) and it means you're not rushing to get stuff done. It's not so much that it takes that long to set up but rushing means you tend to miss things and then you get knocks on the door every 5 minutes for those things.

And then for some pracs that require an involved set up (e.g. agar plates or the bloody osmosis prac where you're deshelling eggs for 3 days), 48 hours or however long you need to set them up. Like Rosalie, if you want a dissection give a heads up a few weeks in advance. I don't need to know what day specifically just what week to order stuff in.

But as a general rule, ordering at least one day in advance would be the standard in most schools I reckon

[LabbieSeth]

As a general rule here, the prac should be posted by 1pm the day before at the latest. As mentioned above, when it comes to things like dissections or agar plates, or even a chemistry prac where I'm requested to make multiple fresh solutions, I expect more notice. Usually 3 days.

However this never gets followed here. I have 4 pracs on today that were ordered this morning.

[RosalieL]

I hear you LabbieSeth! Last week I had 2 pracs booked in and prepared in advance. Neither of them were used that day but I ended up doing a total of 5 on the day (preparation and clean up). I like to try to plan my time so if there's a day or two with minimal pracs I can easily prepare in advance, then I'll work towards spending a couple of hours on a task that's much easier to complete without interruptions. I had even sent out an email the day before this particular day saying I was planning to spend the day in the store room and I didn't even get to walk into the store room that day.

[Pm706Narrogin]

I hear you LabbieSeth! Last week I had 2 pracs booked in and prepared in advance. Neither of them were used that day but I ended up doing a total of 5 on the day (preparation and clean up). I like to try to plan my time so if there's a day or two with minimal pracs I can easily prepare in advance, then I'll work towards spending a couple of hours on a task that's much easier to complete without interruptions. I had even sent out an email the day before this particular day saying I was planning to spend the day in the store room and I didn't even get to walk into the store room that day.

Rule number 1 Rosalie: NEVER plan for some quiet time to do general lab maintenance tasks. How do the teachers always seem to know

The other annoying thing if you're a big school is there's a flow of equipment. If one year 8 teacher wants to do a prac then it's likely someone else will use it, then someone else and so on.

You work out the flow perfectly. Mrs A has it first. Then I get it ready for Mr B tomorrow. Then Mr C later on that day. Then Ms D the day after. But Mrs A doesn't take it the first day and she's gonna have it tomorrow. But she has her 8s the same time as Mr B. So now you have to make a second set of everything so they can both do it.

It's become worse for us the last couple of years because the timetabling has as many as 4 or 5 lower school classes on at the same time. Plus our new Head of Department likes all lower school classes to be in sync. What it's done is create a situation where you often have to set up 2 or 3 lots of anything for lower school just to accommodate it. And if one teacher doesn't do it when they said they will it causes chaos down the line.

There's been a few pracs we've had to put our foot down because try as we might, we're not miracle workers and can't magic 4 sets of equipment out of 2

[bigmack]

Nice description PM708 .

Luckily our teachers are understanding and if they miss a lesson and it causes flow on problems , they work with whats available when it’s available .

[RosalieL]

We are a small but growing school. Since I started here, we have triple streamed year 7 and moved from compressed HSC to normal, so instead of bio and chem one year and physics the next, I have 2x bio, chem and physics senior classes every year. We also had one small cohort so only one class but they've now reached year 11, so there's an extra junior class. My hours have not increased with the extra classes and space is at a premium with all the pracs. I try to encourage the teachers to order through riskassess so I can use it as an argument for more hours next year, and most teachers order most of their pracs, but one doesn't order any (he'll do it verbally or via a series of emails or just comes in a lesson or two before he needs it and tries to help himself but can't find anything since our renovations...).

[Anna Z]

We are a small but growing school. Since I started here, we have triple streamed year 7 and moved from compressed HSC to normal, so instead of bio and chem one year and physics the next, I have 2x bio, chem and physics senior classes every year. We also had one small cohort so only one class but they've now reached year 11, so there's an extra junior class. My hours have not increased with the extra classes and space is at a premium with all the pracs. I try to encourage the teachers to order through riskassess so I can use it as an argument for more hours next year, and most teachers order most of their pracs, but one doesn't order any (he'll do it verbally or via a series of emails or just comes in a lesson or two before he needs it and tries to help himself but can't find anything since our renovations...).

The one that does it verbally...put it in RA for him, send him the link and ask him to sign it. That way you are still documenting for safety and also so you can build a case for your hours.

[RosalieL]

I've done that a few times if I've had time but he ignores it. This is my 5th year here and he hasn't taught science that whole time but the first 2 years and this year he is and I don't think he has even signed in to RiskAssess once. Sometimes I've printed it out and put it in the tub (which requires effort because I don't have a printer close by) but I'm pretty sure it's just put off to the side and ignored. He's the same teacher that complains about the lead iodide prac not being as spectacular as it used to be (because I changed it from using 1M Lead nitrate and Potassium iodide to 0.001M and 0.1M respectively.)

[Pm706Narrogin]

Hopefully you get the increased hours Rosalie.

We've tried and failed in the past. We've gone from 5 techs working around 3.6 FTE down to 3 techs working 2.6 FTE (and 0.6 of that is actually allocated to WHS through a loophole). It wouldn't be so bad if it didn't come in waves. Some days you're struggling to find busy work, other times 3 people on the floor feels like it wouldn't be enough.

The annoying thing is enrolments have dropped. That means funding from the top has dropped. That means they're looking to cut back any way they can and support staff hours are usually the first on the chopping block. The only thing that hasn't dropped is prac load. And if anything that's increased - the simultaneous classes thing I mentioned above plus high staff turnover means we've got new teachers who are often reinventing the wheel and we're having to test way more pracs these days.

It's not all doom and gloom though. Another school in Perth managed to use prac data to argue their case and the school just advertised for a full time lab assistant

[Pm706Narrogin]

Out of curiosity, how do we rate RiskAssess as an ordering tool? We've just started our trial but reading some of the responses in this thread, it sounds like most of the frustrations over ordering persist.

The thing I struggle to reconcile right now is the purpose for us getting it is to ensure we're properly risk assessing everything but it sounds like even in schools that have been using RA for years, ad-hoc ordering and late requests etc. persist. To me that defeats the purpose of the system if we have a bunch of exceptions.

Because, sure, do you really need to risk assess grabbing some plasticine? Probably not. But then if Mrs A did the right thing and still did it but Mr B came in asking for some, is that fair either? And then you enter a really murky area of "okay we have exceptions but where are we drawing the line at exceptions?" And I'm sure most of us don't feel comfortable entering full jerk mode and going "is it in RA? No? Then no you're not getting it."

So how does the hivemind find it? I still like the visibility and feel of our old style pin up board. I worry going full digital will end up causing confusion/communication breakdowns. And how do you manage keeping track of the inevitable ad hoc ordering in amongst all the people doing the right thing?

[Anna Z]

We love RA as a scheduling tool...and yes we do go "is it in RA? No? Then no you're not getting it."

They will only do it a couple of times.

[Wayne]

Same as Anna, love it. So much better than what we had in the past when we wrote/stuck the prac onto the whiteboard.

Like Anna, I only set up or hand out equipment that is in RA, if it's not in there they don't get it. Also the risk assessment is time stamped so there is no argument of whether it was ordered on time. To a degree it gets the teacher to think about what they are doing in the prac as well, I give them exactly what they order (unless what they want is unrealistic) not what I know they need. They only make those mistakes a couple of times before they know they have to get it right.

[bigmack]

I hated it at first , but I like it now .I like the “prepared” box . It lets both me and the teachers know if it’s ready . I hated having to do the signing of the RA on every prac . But I guess it is a second chance to double check .
Our teachers tend to all copy the same pracs ( so they don’t have to make a whole new RA) which makes it easier for me . The same pracs I did last year for the same classes are repeated this year so it reduces the surprises .
Unfortunately the teachers don’t look at the 4week booking page like I do , so they often double book pracs . The date stamp decides who gets it or I will make a copy of equipment if I have time .

Also I like it because I can look at it at home and see if there are any surprises that I should know about before I get in . That is something I couldn’t do with the old book .

I’ve slowly educated my mob that if they put a link to the place where they got the Prac idea from , I can see exactly what they are trying to do and supply more specific material . IE a piece of cardboard ….. well how big , what sort of cardboard , how thick .If I can see what they are using the cardboard for , I can get them somethat will do the job the best .