Can anyone explain to me (and one of the teachers here!) why iron and copper can have different valencies? ie iron can be iron II or III and copper (I) or (II). Do they have different numbers of electrons, if so, they would need to have different numbers of protons so that they remain neutral and hence then become different elements! Or is it that copper has a valency of two but sometimes likes to share only one electron? If so, how do you know when it wants to share 1 or 2 and hence how many anions they bind with.
My head hurts!
I'm hoping there is an easy explanation that someone can give me without requiring a PHd in Chemistry to understand.
Thanks
Iron II and III which one?
Copper and Iron Ions
Hi Jen 1,
We must understand the subatomic structures of each if we are to understand what is going on, but simply I can tell you for the ease of understanding.
Some Metal Ions can have a varying charge for example Fe[sup]2+[/sup] and Fe[sup]3+[/sup] and it is this difference which is reflected in each Ion of interest.
If an Ion looses an electron (which is negatively Charged then the overall charge of that Ion will be 1[sup]+[/sup] if there are two electrons missing then the overall charge is 2[sup]+[/sup] (Because if an atom is neutral then to loose a negative charge, the overall charge is the Positive).
Remember the rule: If an atom looses an electron the name for that atom then becomes an Ion.
You are right, the same number of protons exist in the nucleus and this, after the loss of electrons give the overall positive charge.
Hydrogen is also able to form two ions those being, H[sup]+[/sup] and H[sup]-[/sup] becareful as the later is a negative charge.
I hope this makes sense to you,
Cheers,
Robb.....
We must understand the subatomic structures of each if we are to understand what is going on, but simply I can tell you for the ease of understanding.
Some Metal Ions can have a varying charge for example Fe[sup]2+[/sup] and Fe[sup]3+[/sup] and it is this difference which is reflected in each Ion of interest.
If an Ion looses an electron (which is negatively Charged then the overall charge of that Ion will be 1[sup]+[/sup] if there are two electrons missing then the overall charge is 2[sup]+[/sup] (Because if an atom is neutral then to loose a negative charge, the overall charge is the Positive).
Remember the rule: If an atom looses an electron the name for that atom then becomes an Ion.
You are right, the same number of protons exist in the nucleus and this, after the loss of electrons give the overall positive charge.
Hydrogen is also able to form two ions those being, H[sup]+[/sup] and H[sup]-[/sup] becareful as the later is a negative charge.
I hope this makes sense to you,
Cheers,
Robb.....
Dr Robert Crosdale. MRACI. NSS. NSSA. NASA.
Ph.D (Chem), Post Grad Ph.D (Physics), M.Ed, B.Sc (Hons), Dip. Appl. Sc. (Chem)
Lake Munmorah High School.
University of New England.
University of New South Wales.
University of Newcastle.
To understand the Universe from our perspective, we need to look towards our own backyard first for answers.
** AD ASTRA PER ASPERA - SEMPER EXPLORO **
Ph.D (Chem), Post Grad Ph.D (Physics), M.Ed, B.Sc (Hons), Dip. Appl. Sc. (Chem)
Lake Munmorah High School.
University of New England.
University of New South Wales.
University of Newcastle.
To understand the Universe from our perspective, we need to look towards our own backyard first for answers.
** AD ASTRA PER ASPERA - SEMPER EXPLORO **
Thanks Robb, it sort of makes sense, but why can Iron lose 2 or 3 and not 1? Why can't copper lose 3? I suspect that this is all above my understanding and will just have to live with the fact that "some metal ions...." can do this and will have to try and remember which they are and which they chose to do with which cation.
It really annoys the students when they ask me something like this and I say "just cos!".
Once again thanks for your help.
It really annoys the students when they ask me something like this and I say "just cos!".
Once again thanks for your help.
Iron and Copper Ions
Hi Jen 1,
Copper can have a 3[sup]+[/sup] charge but is becoming unstable so you won't find an energy state higher than 3[sup]+[/sup] as the Copper Ion becoming too unstable from its subatomic level, hence its highest energy state is 2[sup]+[/sup] Iron 1[sup]+[/sup] can not exist as the minimum it can have is a 2[sup]+[/sup] Charge, as this is the lowest energy state for that Ion.
I hope this offers more on this subject, its not too hard once it sticks in the old grey matter.
If there is anything else let me know.
Cheers,
Robb.....
Copper can have a 3[sup]+[/sup] charge but is becoming unstable so you won't find an energy state higher than 3[sup]+[/sup] as the Copper Ion becoming too unstable from its subatomic level, hence its highest energy state is 2[sup]+[/sup] Iron 1[sup]+[/sup] can not exist as the minimum it can have is a 2[sup]+[/sup] Charge, as this is the lowest energy state for that Ion.
I hope this offers more on this subject, its not too hard once it sticks in the old grey matter.
If there is anything else let me know.
Cheers,
Robb.....
Last edited by Robb on 25 Mar 2007, 00:18, edited 2 times in total.
Dr Robert Crosdale. MRACI. NSS. NSSA. NASA.
Ph.D (Chem), Post Grad Ph.D (Physics), M.Ed, B.Sc (Hons), Dip. Appl. Sc. (Chem)
Lake Munmorah High School.
University of New England.
University of New South Wales.
University of Newcastle.
To understand the Universe from our perspective, we need to look towards our own backyard first for answers.
** AD ASTRA PER ASPERA - SEMPER EXPLORO **
Ph.D (Chem), Post Grad Ph.D (Physics), M.Ed, B.Sc (Hons), Dip. Appl. Sc. (Chem)
Lake Munmorah High School.
University of New England.
University of New South Wales.
University of Newcastle.
To understand the Universe from our perspective, we need to look towards our own backyard first for answers.
** AD ASTRA PER ASPERA - SEMPER EXPLORO **
