Our school is thinking of doing a lab refurb.
Currently we have about 700 students, 3 labs that are in pretty much constant use, and 2 fume hoods that open both onto the prep room and the adjoining labs.
They want to have 3 wet labs, one dry lab and ONE fume hood that is located in the designated chem lab, that is NOT accessible via the prep room. WTF.
Argued that that wasn't convenient or acceptable, got told it was, basicly.
Have 2 fumehoods - 1 in chem prep room, 1 in Chem laboratory (next door to each other).
6 labs total, 5 prep/storerooms, 1 optics/dark room attached to physics lab, walk-in chemical storeroom/bunker.
Science on 2 floors.
Just had lifts installed 2 years ago which is useful as 1 have 1 trolley of laptops (x28) that go up and down throughout each day.
Also 1 seminar / lecture room
approx 900 students
I'm basically the only one who uses either fumehood.
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Last edited by DavidPeterson on 29 Aug 2012, 14:12, edited 2 times in total.
DCP
STEM Resource @ Laboratory Manager
RPAS (Drone) Pilot
I have 3 fume hoods, one in a lab, one in a preproom(I Have 3 preprooms) and the third in the other preproom which opens both prep and adjoining lab. we have 1000 students and apart from me they hardly get used. I think you need one in the preproom as you will use it more than anyone.
Go see your WHS rep, They may have something to say about you not having one to access.
Cheers Trish.
Before our refurb we had 4 labs and 2 fume hoods. Now have 3 wet and one dry lab and 1 fume hood between new preproom and one lab. BUT we still have 2 old labs as well and a fume hood in each of those. Students now down to 560.
The thing is you must have access to a fume cabinet from a preproom. You cannot make up chemicals in a lab where there are students. It would be dangerous not to mention inconvenient to transport your chemicals to the lab and make up there. You have to have your equipment and chemicals at hand, not the students stuff.
The CSIS manual is a good reference if you are a govt school, or even perhaps if you aren't. You have to have access to a fume cabinet to make up chemicals, and no students are allowed in preprooms for that reason.
As for the chemical storeroom, chemicals have to be stored in a certain way, with physical divisions. If they are not qualified in this area, suggest they do their homework before commenting on something they know nothing about.
Just show them the MSDS for some of your chemicals that must only be used in a fume hood (eg concentrated acids) which would be extremely dangerous to carry through a class when you are wanting to do dilutions, and expecting you to work around class schedules would be a royal pain in the butt!
We have 2 labs with the prep room in between and the fume hood has one side in a lab and one side in the prep room.
I agree. It took me 5 years to get a decent fume cabinet. It is located in chemistry lab, so I make up chemicals before, after school, at lunchtime, or in free periods. I was soooo happy to get it, that did not think, how I can use it. Now I wish I had it in prep room. It is no too bad, I am used to it, but it takes organisation on my part and teachers, as I cannot whip up dilutions on their whim. Senior chemistry uses the cabinet, because I set up the chemicals in there. It is 5m long and can be used for demonstrations or a small group work.
Lada
Yep the principal showed me the plans. When I asked where the fume hoods were he said there was one - in the lab - he expects me to work around the lab schedule - at the moment there IS NO workaround - apart from excursions or other anomalies, and sport afternoon - they are fully booked .
My lprep room is a long L-shaped size, - the long L is basicly not much wider than a door way, and lined on one side with some equipment and very oldarchived exams. So it's a 20m walk from the chemstore ( at the other side of the L) to the door of the lab which will contain the one fume hood. I can't remember what side of the lab the fume hood was destined for - I was too busy thinking WTF and trying to be tactful. He assures me the guy doing the plans knows what he's talking about - but I've got to doubt it. They originally wanted to have a compactus for the chemicals - not sure if that was the school's idea or the guy doing the plans - great, I'll get all the chemicals arranged in DG classes with Hopefully appropriate seperations, so they can all be jammed together in a compactus . They now want to use a compactus for equipment.
We have 7 labs and 3 fume hood thanks to renovations several years ago. There is one accessable from my prep room and the adjoining lab amd 2 other just in labs.
Apart from mine they are rarely used.
One has been severly damaged when a teacher let the kids use it to test firelighters!!!!!!!!!!!
I walked into the room and they had 4 fire lighters ( like you use to start a bar-b-que) alight at once in the fume hood.
A lot of smoke damaged and parts that are so distorted the sliding door no longer closes properly and the top flue is also buckled.
About the compactus for chemicals, not a good idea. Our had a sign put on it during the renovations "Not to be used for chemicals"
What happens is the articles on the shelves migrate slightly as you slide it one way or the other and periodically just fall out.
4 labs, 1 prep room (in centre of the "square" of labs). We have 3 ducted fume hoods, one in the prep room, one in one of the labs on each "side" of the prep room. Thats the good school. The not so good school I have one, portable, non ducted fume hood between 2 labs and 2 prep rooms on different sides of the school in different buildings on different levels!
Architects know crap all about lab design. It took me nearly a year to fight for a safety shower to be installed in our new, multimillion dollar building as the architect assured the school that the hand held supplementary eye washes at every sink, were suffice. They may well be suffice under the regulations (although I have my doubts) but not suffice for me who potentially works on my own with conc chemicals. Anyway, they retrofitted one in the prep room for minimal cost so I'm happy now.
I convinced them a compactus for chemicals was a really bad idea.
Re eyewashes - I had to push to get an eyewash in my prep room - 1 lab (the furthest) has a shower, the other 2 have wall mounted hand held/eyewash/shower fittings. The prep room had nothing. It now has a hand held eyewash/shower that is connected to my sink tap. The sink tap has to be left on all the time in order for it to work properly (Despite several nudges to maintenance the handle has leaked ever since it was installed.) It then has two additionl handles, one for the sink tap and one for the eywash shower.
At least it looks like I'm getting a safety shower in the refurb
We have 6 labs, and 3 prep rooms. and 4 fume cupboards. Two are in the ground floor prep rooms. The other two are in the chem labs. Their is not a fume cupboard upstairs. So I need to carry up all solutions that are needed.
Regards Labbie
Lab Manager/Lab Tech, mind reading etc etc
Now retired
I have two labs and one prep room, with only the prep room having a fume cupboard. All three rooms have eye washes but no shower. The eyewash in the prep room is situated away from the sink and if any are used as a shower there are no drainage for the water, it will just pool on the floor.
We have 4 labs and one fume cabinet which is between the prep room and the lab we use for senior chemistry. I am the only one who ever uses it though. Although there is access from the lab it is only a small fume cabinet and it would be difficult to use for a demo or group exercise. I wouldn't be happy having to go to another room to make up solutions though.
We have eye wash stations in all labs but I don't have one in my prep room. However my prep room is in between two labs and the eyewash in both labs is right outside the door into my prep room. But like you Wayne none of our eyewash stations have proper drainage. There is a drainhole in the floor not far away but it pools and splashes all over the floor before it get near the drain. We don't have a proper shower but all the eyewash stations have a handheld shower head attached to them.
Nicky St Augustine's College
Augustine Heights, QLD 4300
curie wrote: Also told my pokey chemstore was too big.
As another thought, take in one of the charts that says how far chemicals need to be from each other. Do a search for storage here. I have posted links to some in the past.
Does your school have a business manager? Burser? Whoever is in charge of the finances of the school? Talk to them, and point out that YOU are the only person who really understands your job. Point out what the fume cupboard is used for BY YOU and say "do you really want that going on in a classroom?" Wouldn't take much for a kid to swing forward on their chair leaving the back two legs poking out and thus tripping you over with a glass bottle of concentrated sulfuric acid. Is this what the school wants? Point out the inconvenience of having to install one post-construction and all the extra money it would cost to do this. Also maybe you could get them to visit your current fume cupboard and point out how loud it is!! Is that conducive to kids' concentration? (but that won't really help your cause to get one joining a classroom). Ours is between to labs as I've said before and I always check with the teacher before I use it during class times, or else I have everything set up ready to go as soon as the class leaves. I work 20 mins past the end of day bell and I certainly wouldn't want to be starting to get set up when that bell goes!
On the middle school campus I have two labs both with fume hoods. The fume hood for one lab is doublesided so that I can access from the prep room. On the senior campus I have three labs. The biology lab has a double sided fume hood with access to the biology prep room. The chemistry lab has a doublesided fumehood with access to a prep room which is in between chem and physics labs. We have safety showers with eyewashes in chemistry, biology, and both labs on the middle school. It was my understanding that it had become a legal requirement (OH&S) for the proper safety equipment to be in place in laboratories that used chemicals. I agree with the sentiment that the architects who design or plan refurbishments of science laboratories haven't got a clue as to how labs or specifically prep rooms function within the system.
My commisserations to you Curie. Pretty bad when the head honcho doesn't have a clue about safety in the workplace. Perhaps when you are obliged to carry conc.acids into the classroom at inconvenient moments to make up solutions (which will inevitably occur) or decanting organics into smaller bottles for a senior prac, they will have to get in the architect again to give you adequate access to a fume cupboard for your job. Better though if it had been done properly in the first place.
Lyn.
If they don't listen to you just be as awkward as you can and disrupt as many lessons as possible. And if they complain don't make up their solutions for them. Sorry, feeling militant today!
Nicky St Augustine's College
Augustine Heights, QLD 4300
WTF.
. They now want to use a compactus for equipment.
