Hi everyone
I'm once again looking for advice. The TAS dept use solvents and laquers for their woodworking projects. They have gone to products which claim to be less toxic than what they were using previously as they want Yrs 7-12 to be able to use these things. However it still contains toluene and xylene which are coded as Orange. The teacher has asked me if it is possible for him to use these products in his classes as long as he has done a risk assessment on them. Obvioulsy it is a bit of a problem as kids certainly need to be able to use products such as these to complete their projects, especially the Yr 10 groups.
So, can anyone answer my question.... is it OK for teachers to use products outside their specified user categories as long as they have done RA's and adhere to strict controls?
I think ,
If chemicals with orange dot (years 11-12) are used in 7-10 classes then they are classified as Teachers only, and they can be used if everyone is aware of risk. CSIS book appendix D page 2 “Category: DET has categorised the chemicals according to the accessed level of risk. Refer to
DET “operational guidelines†for full explanation. I am in independent school and do not have access to that but maybe you do if you are in DET school
Yes the teacher needs to do a RA and REGISTER it with the DET before he/she can go ahead. Good luck, I have a teacher that has done this, we never did the experment, due to the fact it was never approved. Big fines I believe if they just go ahead. Not worth it.
Regards Labbie
Lab Manager/Lab Tech, mind reading etc etc
Now retired
My opinion would be that it is an entirely different substance. Being something is not equal to containing something. As in nail polish remover contains acetone but is not pure acetone and therefore not as bad for you. Not that you would go soak yourself in it or anything. So probably the substance they want to use that contains toluene isn't as bad as toluene itself.
I was thinking the same as Rosalie, that it is a product containing toluene and xylene. A thopught is that, is the product one that is in regular use domestically which would lead me to believe that it is not in the category as those chemicals as they are on their own. What does your HOS say about it?
We are an Independent School so will not be required to register with DET but also I cannot access further infomation from them. Also my HOS, and the rest of the school , depend on my "expertise" (haha ) to tell them what they are and are not allowed to use.
In the CSIS manual, solutions of 12.5% toluene and xylene are classified as non-hazardous and therefore able to be used by 7-12Yrs. The quantities in one of the products TAS are using are 35-40% for toluene and and 20-25% for xylene.
So it is definately not very nice stuff.... but the kids have to be able to use something, and other schools must be using similar products in their TAS departments????
Ant further ideas?
kathryn
Ok I'm bringing this to the front of the queue again!!! I know some of you other labbies are responsible for all the chemicals throughout the school, so what do you do in instances like this? Do the teachers write RA's to cover themselves for products which are classified for older Yr groups or are there safer alternatives they could be using?
Hi Kathryn
The Teacher fills in a RA and the HT signs it the teacher must supply an MSDS for all chemicals and attach it to the RA.
At my school the teacher then gives it to me and I file it but in this case I think it would be a good idea to have a copy with the HT and maybe one in a file with you or the Office?
Hope this helps
this goes under the heading of colour coding....
I have bene going thru and checking all our chems (hence the other thread!)
And i have noticed that most of my BLUE 'class' chems have green dots on them.....the teacher said it was because we are a high school and therefore don't have to worry about the K-12...only the 7-12. I can see her point, but if CSIS says its Blue, its blue? right?
When the draft of the CSIS came out back in ????????????????? It was blue for central schools that have years K-12, which means the same as a green dot. High schools where asked to use green for 7-12. So many of us started the CSIS when the draft was out, misunderstood, and went ahead and put blue dots on. I still have some blue dots that are in the chemstore, but they should really be green.
Volume 2 Appendices D page 7: K-12 Approved for use in teaching and learning situations with students K-12 s appropriate Blue dots
7-12 Approved for use in teaching and learning situations with students 7-12 Green dots
I Do hope that helps you.
Regards Labbie
Lab Manager/Lab Tech, mind reading etc etc
Now retired
Final desicion comes down to the Principal and the OH&S officer.But as a TAS teacher they should already be aware of what to use and what not to use,surely they were CSIS trained,surely they have their own copies of the 'Bible' ,but go ask the higher beings cause basically if anything backfires the responsability falls back on the principal
I've just done the annual register for the Junior school. Every teacher has on their desk a bottle of handgel - that antibacterial stuff that you don't need water with. It contains 66% ethanol according to its MSDS. Ethanol should be coded green 7-12. So should I be classifying this product as green and should I be advising the teacher's to keep it out of reach of their little darlings? Seems like it would be defeating the purpose of having an antibacterial handy to counteract the "hazardous" snotty germs they are in contact with.
Kathryn
Kathryn
I'm familiar with the types of hand gel you're talking about.
A couple of questions to ask: Is the hand gel for the use of the teacher or the students? If it's just for the teacher, can they put it out of reach of the students? Does the bottle have any warnings such as "keep out of reach of children"? Can the teacher get the kids to wash their hands the old fashioned way, with soap and water, ie do they need to have it at all?
Assess the consequences of one of the kids ingesting this, and make a determination. The coloured dot system should be a good guide as to the accessibility of this to young students. Even if the senior staff members have OK'd the use of this for the students, it still should be supervised by the teacher, not left sitting on a desk. They wouldn't dream of leaving an opened bottle of metho or dettol sitting there would they? The people who have made the decision to put it into the classrooms are probably not aware of the contents.
I'm always amazed that OH&S responsibility seems to fall onto the lab assistant!
I am of the understanding that the colour system is specific for chemicals in the science department, not everyday household items found all over the school. Yes, there needs to be MSDS kept somewhere, and the items listed on a register, but is it really essential to put a coloured sticker on everything? Surely following the safety guidelines on the containers should be enough.
I have been told every chemical in the school in classrooms has to be colour coded. Even paints in the Art department which are non-toxic and suitable for all age groups have to have a blue sticker on every bottle - this was told to me at registration last term. Chemicals in staffrooms, or used by cleaners etc and not intended for use by students, don't have to have stickers.
I think I will recommend that the gel is put out of the reach of children rather than being left on their desks. I have to approach them today about putting cleaning chemicals away properly - even in prep/kindy where everyone seems to have "lost" the keys to the cupboards so don't bother. I know we all have these things at home and by school age children should know not to touch, but we have to allow for unexpected behavour. I just find it difficult being the "dragon"!
Kathryn
Hi Kathryn
Yes it is a green dot and if anyone other than the person uses it (you said it was on the teachers desk) then you must include it on the stocktake
How do we get on when we have orientation days and the Yr6 students come to be Yr7 for the morning?
They do pracs under guidance of a Yr 10 student at the benches (peer support introduction).
Should Yr 6 be treated as Yr 7? Should the pracs only use chemicals with blue sticker?
,
) to tell them what they are and are not allowed to use.
