Can anyone be forced to work in Science?

[dime]

I guess this is a question for NSW Labbies as I am talking about a DET state high school.
I am off for at least four days next week and maybe a further 5 days depending on recovery the following week.
I have told my dozy Head Teacher that I do not need to be replaced, as we are in the middle of a reburb and stuff is stored everywhere. But of course she never listens or agrees and wants someone at her beck and call to do last minute things for her. I told her she can put her photocopying requests in through the usual channels and they will done.
Anyway, she wants someone and is insisting on having one of the poor photocopy room ladies do my job in my absence.

So here's my question: Can some poor SAO be made work in science if they have had no training and don't want to handle chemicals? Is there an official stance on this? I will ring the union but thought someone out there might know the answer.

[Rowyrow]

WOW that hardly seems fair. I'm taking 8 school days off starting thursday and im not being replaced. The teachers have to get their orders in by lunch time wednesday and if they haven't NO DICE! The science faculty had a meeting to discuss what they will do in my absence, ( a whole meeting about me! ) and it was decided only pracs ordered befor I leave are allowed, and one of my lovely teachers will wash up glassware and transferre equiptment between trolley when needed, anything that is not safe to put togeter in advance or requires fresh solutions i.e enzymes etc will have to wait till I get back. Honestly I can't imagine any of the office staff wanting to come and fumble through it, pretty sure most of them have never been to this part of the school anyway. Not to mention all the OH&S regs that would be bent.

[smiley]

Golly Gee Dime! I'm torn with this overwhelming desire to be logical and sensible. Scary (for me). Surely the answer is "Oh HELL No!" In fact didn't we all discuss this once before. I'm sure it's a union matter.

Just get the SAO in question up for a "practice" before you go, when the HOD is going to be around, and then orchestrate some kind of smelly disaster, with lots of smoke and broken glass. If we all think for a while, I'm sure we can come up with something good. Then shake your head dolefully, and suggest that it might not be a good idea after all.

[estelle]

I'm with Smiley, sometimes scare tactics are the best answer because NSW DET (department of education and NO training) says we are to be multi skilled so we can be moved to any department at any time.
It's actually up to the school Principal in the end, mine has said she won't allow anyone here without training, not that I have ever been replaced when I am off.
No one likes the system, but nothing is ever done about it.
good luck and maybe the union can help out somehow.
Otherwise back to Smileys' idea.

[franco]

Here we go again with yet another example of how undervalued we are by some teaching staff!! The attitude and lack of understanding of our role – especially the OH&S side regarding chemicals, is usually attributed to non-science teaching staff who believe we’re just glorified ‘gofers’ and ‘lackeys’. For a Science teacher, and a HOD at that, to have such a poor grasp of our work value by insisting that an untrained and unwilling replacement be forced to do the lab tech role in your absence, suggests that she:

(a) is selectively blind and deaf;
(b) would give a rhino a run for his money with her thick skin;
(c) is a bully;
(d) is a poor leader because she is unwilling to listen to what others’ have to say or agree to a compromise;
(e) all of the above!

If the shoe was on the other foot, most of us would be able to work elsewhere in the school and with a bit of training, I reckon we could probably give a colleague or two a bit of a fright! But the OH&S aspects of working in Science should see our roles quarantined to qualified applicants only, or those who want to do the job - even if unqualified to begin with, but willing to undertake training.
Finally (sorry to run on so but lack of recognition is a pet peeve of mine!), it is way past time for decent training programmes to be available Australia-wide (including isolated schools), and remuneration commensurate with what we actually DO is given the honest consideration it needs.

Cheers
Fran

[fibreweb]

Knowing the HT in question. I would say all of the above, and more!!!!!!!!!

Pages could be written about what she did at her previous school but I'd better not.

Hold in there Dime and stand up to her.

Wendy

[dime]

I couldn't agree with you more Franco.

And yes she is (e) all of the above!

It is difficult not to take her by the ears and shake her. Never listens or compromises. And to boot DADS.
Thanks for your comments everyone.

[smiley]

Just remember Dime: Phenolphthalein. Just 18 micrograms in a whole packet of laxettes, so think what one drop might do in a cup of coffee for yr HOD

Practical example of how she's making you feel.

[Judy R]

well said Fran,could not agree more.I have worked in NSW and QLd and same everywhere.
Schools make us Head Techs and WH&S officers and send us to training and then DET schools think any twit can do both jobs.
My advice is where possible work in independent schools at least there they know the admin assistant can't do the Science job!!!
When will it end!!!!!

[Labbie]

NO ONE can be made to work in Science. And remember it is only the Head Teacher that can train another labbie, not us. We can show them what to do. If you take over 11 days off, the dept will get in a replacement, but if it is only a few days NO. You can not work half a day in Science and half a day in cooking, thats from OH&S. Can not think of any thing else just now. I do know of a labbie, that never did the CSIS because she always said she was never trained in it. So would never handle chemicals. The head teacher was also so busy do solutions etc. Please do check with the PSA.

[m]

hi
i would be a bit worried if you were not replaced for that period of time as it could be interpretted as a science assistant is not needed at that location as they can manage without one.
i am never replaced where i work if it is only for 1-2 days but i insist on someone if it is more as all the work eg washing up etc piles up and waits for my return. also other sas can see for themselves that yes i do work at work. they seem to thinK (principal included) that i just sit around and do nothing all day.
as far as i'm aware, it is a condition of employment that a sas person be WILLING and have the ABILITY to do work (not necessarily training) in any area of the school. training can be provided as an individual self paced learning module and must be provided by the employer in this case DET and is mandatory as part of the hazardous substances regulation of 1996. sounds impressive but this training is VERY basic and to me doesnt cover enough or in any depth. it took me 2years at tafe to learn anything close to an acceptable level but i guess it does cover the det legally.
having other people walk in your shoes is a great way to get your contribution to your work place valued so dont sell yourself short by refusing help you are entitled to it and you deserve it.
good luck with everything
maria

[Ocean Breeze]

so that brings me to the question...

for those of you who are NOT replaced when away...say 1-4 days.

How do deal with the work pressure..how do you prepare before hand and how do you manage to catch up when you return?
Paid or unpaid overtime? working extra and getting time in leui later on?
working twice as fast?

I am in the same situation. No-one replaces me. I would rather that for short absences that they dont! hard to get someone qualified to replace me.
Also the teachers just wait for me to return before they do any pracs anyway. So it would be just paying someone to sit in my chair for a bit. They can do washing up I suppose, but cant really wash up for a whole day, (backbreaking!) let alone 4 days

Sometimes I put in claimed Overtime ( on the rare occasion & in certain circumstances management agrees to this arrangement).
Other times I put in extra hrs, for time in lieu.. but I find it REALLY hard to find time that I am not busy to actually take a day or 1/2 day off. Then if I do I get behind..... so need to work longer.. viscious circle

[smiley]

Just an aside to this very vexed question....

I imagine teachers of Yr 9 students have pondered that same question quite often?

Indeed, CAN anybody be forced to work in Science? Sometimes the answer would seem to be No.

[Jen1]

I hear you smiley! I have 7 non science teachers that have been forced to take a science class this year. And I only have 2 and 1/2 science teachers. I have spent so much time this semester teaching teachers how to light a bunsen, what is an acid, how to use a microscope, what prac they should be doing next, demonstrating the pracs in class, the list just goes on and on. And all this coming from a level 1 lab technician that gets paid half of what they do! grrrrrrrrrrr I dont blame the teachers but I dont think its my job to teach them. Does anyone else have this problem?

[smiley]

Frequently! Still, it keeps my brownie points level so sky high, that when I stuff up and forget someone's prac etc, my HOD won't countenance complaints, Yay!

[helie]

Hi all
The short answer is yes. Your principal can and will do anything he/she likes. More than likely the senior is the one that makes all the decissions for your principal. Take heart we are all suckers with no rights.
Remember you work to live, the holidays make up for the bullying.
happy days
h.

[smiley]

Nah! I LOVE my job. On almost every day I would say I get paid to play. Of course there's always the clean up, but mostly I love it!

Next week we're doing Chocolate Lip Gloss in one lab, and looking at the stomata of rainforest leaves in the next, and checking out the blood flow in the tail of a live guppy in the third! Who'd work in an office, I ask you.

[ELIZABETH]

I'm with you, Smiley - I love my job and never have a dull moment!!!

[rodannt]

I love my job .......every day is different
I also get to go on out ed. camps once a term, thats my reward for putting up with crazy science teachers....

[noona]

I also love my job
No one to tell me what to do or have someone looking over my shoulder.
3 years till retriment maybe and that will be a sad but also a happy day as I hope to do the big trip around this great land of ours
Maybe I will get to meet some of you in other states