AVOIDING ACCIDENTS

[Ocker]

I see in this mornings paper that2 students at Cambelltown were burnt with HCl when a test tube broke.
Does anyone have details?
Where the Kids fooling around?
How can we prevent recurrence?
I feel that this is the most important use of chemtalk, exchanging this info to prevent other accidents!!

[macca]

I agree Ocker, but as labbies, I think we all do as much as we can to prevent accidents. To point teachers in the right direction and report to HT if needed. I really don't know what else as labbies we can do.

Everytime I see a report of an accident, I feel sick. I photocopy any information I can find out about it, and hand out to all the teachers. To show them it does happen and can happen to them.

Have a great weekend.

[dolphinscales]

I agree Macca - everytime i see a lab accident i also flogg the teacehrs with it - ok not literally - really to show them it does actually happen it is not just me going on about some therotical.

i also understand legally a lit of the time things can not be shared which is a pitty as they need to be so others can learn or at the very least become aware these things happen.

[Lis]

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/n ... 5869177530


My hubby sent it to me yesterday, hope this link works

Cheers
Lisa

[tuesday]

What was the boy doing in the first place to throw a test tube across the room. I worry so much with what goes on in the rooms with some kids. They don't care or think

[smeee]

This is from the Campbelltown Macarthur Advertiser.....

School science experiment lands boys in hospital
MICHELLE TAVERNITI
20 May, 2010 02:37 PM

TWO M.e.t School students have been taken to Campbelltown Hospital after being splashed with chemicals during a science experiment.
The boys, both aged 12, were doing a science experiment using hyrdochloride (sic) and ammonium chloride in test tubes.
Campbelltown Police told the Advertiser one of the students, acting on reflex, threw the test tube - which splashed on his arm and onto another student.
Police attended the scene at the Warby Street school at about 11.20am.
The boys have been taken to Campbelltown Hospital as a cautionary measure and only have superficial injuries.

MET is a Brethran school.

Also...a bit of confusion to conflicting reports of
1) hydrochloric acid - as reported in Telegraph
2) hyrdochloride ( as spelt in Campbelltown Macarthus newspaper ) and ammonium chloride
( not an experiment that I am familiar with )

One question springs to mind...were they wearing labcoats.
There are many other questions .... but I'm sure police and school authorities will sort it out.
Just hope the students are ok and are now aware of the consequence of their actions.

[J]

And what molarity of HCl was it? Should Year 7 students have access to it anyway?

[J]

Ok not HCl, but the same question applies.

[Ocean Breeze]

confusing indeed.
Is their labby one of us?

Our junior students dont wear lab coats

But seems confusing re the prac that they were doing?
H Cl & Ammonuim chloride? any ideas? yr 7 acid strength/molarity ?
Appendix D of DET guidleines say that < 4 Molar can be used by yrs 7-10, BUT
who on earth would give yr 7 students even close to that strength of acid? So I assume it was a dilute

Ammonium Chloride can be used by 7-12 as well.
Why did student throw...always risk of a personal meltdown/tube hot and had reflex reaction etc

The prac wouldnt have been heating it due to toxic fumes emission.

What was the risk assessment on that one I wonder?

And my final musing is..the news report said at one point that HAZMAT arrived. Why?

I tell you here and now, that we would have to be at serious status level for ME to want to call in the HAZMAT team.
Ambulance yes, but wonder how Hazmat became involved.
Are they contacted immediately once the ambulance is called, and the word "ammonium chloride" or "acid spill" is mentioned? Maybe?

Lots of assumtions and guessing here I,m afraid on my part.

I wish the school in question all the very best wishes in untangling the incident.Glad the students are ok

Reminders to us all, to be aware, and maybe ourselves run through a few make believe scenarios and ask ourselves,... how would be react... what would be do.. what procedures are in place to deal with 1st aid. spills, incidents both minor and major etc. If there are procedural gaps, lets plug them up asap.

We have a full body shower in prep room. Hav e only needed i t a few times, and has been great.


RS

[RosalieM]

I can't answer all your musings, rainbow-sky, but I would guess that yes, the HAZMAT might have been automatically notified if a size of the 'spill' wasn't stated. Better to have them come and not be needed than to need them and not have them come!

And out of curiosity, why don't your juniors wear lab coats?

[Ocean Breeze]

Hi Rosalie

I agree that it may be an automatic notification.

juniors dont wear lab coats-- number of reasons.

Cost &
logistics of storage and laundering etc- 300+ students each with their own lab coat!

those above issues aside, its deemed that juniors dont need lab coats .
They rarely spill on their own uniforms .
Any spill that does occur, which is rarely, we mostly launder their clothes ifor them asap.. (second hand clothing pool for emergency togs).

Also we limit the amounts of substances that juniors use, and streamline the way those substances are delivered.
Dropper bottles, individual aliquot vials or beakers , minimul amounts etc.

It also alerts them that they just CANT afford to work sloppily, which we think may be encouraged to do if they were to wear a lab coat..
By and large they are careful as can be expected

Our seniors wear lab coats though.


Anyone elses juniours wear/not wear lab coats for science?

[Ocker]

Going back to the origin of this thread
The offending student threw a test tube full of 2M acid across the room at another student who with a bystander got exposed to acid.
I hope a suspension was issued and teacher cautioned to keep better control in class.
But we don't get informed of these outcomes.
Has the labbie from this school been Gagged?

[Ocean Breeze]

Thanks Ocker for the update and info.

I too think that we could all use such incidents/outcomes to look at how/what we do in our own schools.

Student meltdown is one of the less controllable factors in a school science lesson.

Gagged? Maybe.

[fibreweb]

Here at Oxley High neither senior nor juniors wear lab coats for just the reasons stated by Rainbow sky.

We have 1150 students and, for example, if they all had to wear a lab coat to do a prac, 1st lesson this morning there was the possibility of more then 200 students each needing a lab coat at the same time.

Even with the seniors I could need over 60 for one period.

Who would wash them, where to store them,

It is something that the teachers haven't brought up, and because I know it would mean a whole lot more work for me as I have no help, neither have I.

Wendy

[Labbie]

Well said Wendy, I am the only person in this school that wears a lab coat.

[Judy R]

We have x5 labs each with x30 labcoats and x30 safety glasses.
The coats are laundered at the end of each term and I sterilise the safety glasses at the end of each term.
All classes wear lab coats for most experiments(Physics expts are exempt)..they are worn for anything involving chemicals and Biology expts.
This was the norm for my x15 years in NSW and now 4 years in Queensland ( I have only workrd in independent schools)
As well leather school shoes must be worn for all Science experiments.
Students need to be trained for the future work at University and in industrial and commercial labs where the rules are stringent.
The teachers here lead by example.It is best to be proactive not reactive.

[Ocean Breeze]

One of the big issues with juniors wearing lab coats, is that for health and hygeine reasons, we cannot allow students just to put on a labcoat.

It would have to be that students very own allocated labcoat, with its own name labeled to identify it as such.

So for a large school with multiple classes, where can we store little Johnies coat, and where is Large Jillies coat to be stored?

We absolutely shouldnt be allowing students to wear "a" lab coat, any more that I could expect someone to wear someone elses shirt without having laundered it between uses.

There are other issues, like used tissues or personal items accidentally left in the pockets, dandruff and residual hair around the collars, snotty noses, skin diseases and sores, cross contamination, smells and sweat, collar grease/stains.

Also take into account that there are asthmatic students that may have to wear a lab coat previously worn by another students that was wearing an asthmatic trigger such as underarm spray etc.

There are infectious issues, colds and viruses. This may not be such an issue if they are laundered before every individual use.. but good luck with that one timewise!

Otherwise its almost akin to having a hotel that doesnt change the bedsheets between tenants ( and we have all been there at some time , havent we!!?yeuckk!)

Also, I consider that with the contamination that can rapidly build up on lab coats, even if it were the one single wearer, they probably need to be laundered more often than once a term.

I launder our seniors lab coat about once a month... but with single users, could be stretched to once a term, and just rely on intermittant immediate washes after spills etc

As well as that, there are size issues..unisex?
various sizes? too small is a safety issue, just a s much as if it were too large , All PPE must pe properly fitted to the wearer, or that in itself can present a hazard.

Then there are the personal welfare issues.... before every lesson, poor Large Jilly cant quite a find a lab coat large in the box big enough to fit around her rapidly expanding bustline, and Little johnie in the corner who has to wear a way-too -large coat because its the only one left, and he already feels like a weedy little kid in a normal sized world.
All of these embarrasment and sensitivity issues can be a minefield.

With fitting our seniors with labcoats.. we have this little system going....
we have a new sample available at the beginning of yr 11, or when they first come to the school as a new student.
These new samples are one of each S, M, L XL, XXL, and XXXL if need be.
The students are considerately "fitted", by allowing them to choose what they think fits/feels best, and then finally being guided by our suggestions and advice.

We then provide/or order a lab coat in their size.
This may mean purchasing a new one, or even one that was left by a previous student who has left school. Laundered, ironed etc.
Its luck of the draw really who gets the new or used!

Then I prepare a fabric label with their name on it, and iron it on to their labcoat. That coat is then hung on their wall peg, with their name above the peg.

I go through about 3 labcoats a week for my own use, so adding a few labcoats each week into the wash with mine isnt a great stretch . That way I can rotate the laundry. I also use white fabric bleach that sanitises as well, and a good hot tumble dry


Re the safety glasses... its the same thing .
Every student in the school has their OWN set of safety glasses.
Name on glasses, glasses in special pouch thats also that students and named, and then the whole class' goes into a drawer labelled with their class.. eg Class 8 :3

I wont even go into the dangers of communal glasses... covered pretty much above! so wont repeat. It works well I have to say

[curie]

There's always the OHS issue of kids spilling stuff on lab coats and not telling anyone. So the kid in the next class puts on the coat, and whatever was spilt on it has had time to soak through.

[Ocean Breeze]

Curie
Yes, that 's a definate possibility.. easpecially when I see whats spilled on the benches between pracs. Students tend to notice the 'wet' spilss, but not so much the dry spills.

[Ian]

Hmmm!
Reading all that about lab coats is food for thought.
At our school, we have class sets of aprons. They live in the classroom and get washed about once a term. They just give a little bit of protection from spilling chemicals on the kids expensive blazers. What do people in general think about that idea? I guess some of the hygiene issues may still apply, but not all.

Cheers,
Ian.