RiskAssess chemical codes

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chocolatepot2003
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RiskAssess chemical codes

Post by chocolatepot2003 »

Hi fellow labbies,

We use RiskAssess at our school and have noticed the chemical user codes RiskAssess uses are sometimes different to the DET user codes (I have only noticed a few and I haven't gone through every chemical as yet).

For example...they deem sodium tetraborate (borax) as teacher only (what the????), whereas the DET chemical user codes state it is safe for 7-12. We use this all the time to make crystals and slime!!

Apparently the creator of RiskAssess is Phillip Crisp, who wrote the original draft of CSIS, but that was in 1997. I'm not sure when he left and no longer had anything to do with the DET, I imagine someone in the DET still has to look after the online CSIS. From what I can tell from the email Phillip sent me, he has updated the chem user codes himself on RiskAssess, but it is not in consultation with the DET anymore.

So if your school is using RiskAssess, what will your school be going off regarding chemical user codes...the DET or RiskAssess? I have spoken to my HT and we have decided we will still follow the DET CSIS guidelines.

I would be interested to hear your thoughts.

Regards,
Kris
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Labbie
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Re: RiskAssess chemical codes

Post by Labbie »

If you are a DoE school then you have no choice its the CSIS guldelines.
Regards Labbie

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superbug
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Re: RiskAssess chemical codes

Post by superbug »

hi,
in risk assess you will find that the user codes have been updated to reflect the current hazard knowledge gained. If a chemical year level is found to be upgraded it will have brackets for eg regular is 7-12 but upgraded it would look like (7-12). This should be seen in the new CSIS when it comes out.
chocolatepot2003
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Re: RiskAssess chemical codes

Post by chocolatepot2003 »

superbug wrote:This should be seen in the new CSIS when it comes out.
Do you know when the new one is coming out?
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superbug
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Re: RiskAssess chemical codes

Post by superbug »

nope, no idea. Sorry.
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Labbie
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Re: RiskAssess chemical codes

Post by Labbie »

It is a work in progress it will take quite so time, Allan Smith is working full time on the CSIS. It is being updated as he finishes each chemical.
Regards Labbie

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Now retired :wub:
Merilyn1
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Re: RiskAssess chemical codes

Post by Merilyn1 »

As an independent school, we do not have to follow CSIS. Riskassess is up to date, whereas the only copy of CSIS that we have access to is nearly 20 years old. So lots of changes to chemical classification in that time that Riskassess is considering when determining the year code. If you don't have access to a new version of CSIS (I have no idea when independent schools will get access to this hallowed document), you need to use common sense and use the most up to date information available to you.
linotas
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Re: RiskAssess chemical codes

Post by linotas »

Borax was one of those chemicals that got reclassified under the GHS. It's hazardous rating dramatically increased, hence the teacher only classifications. It now has a fertility warning hazard code (H360). RiskAssess is the most up to date information.
MariaQ
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Re: RiskAssess chemical codes

Post by MariaQ »

I think we all have a duty of care, so you would follow CSIS, unless you have more current information that contradicts CSIS. Borax is one of a few chemicals that is now deemed more dangerous than previously, with that knowledge in hand you cannot ignore it. You would not be able to stand up in a court of law and say I knew it was more dangerous, but the 20 plus year document I work with said it was ok. IMO.

Cheers Maria
Matt_Coffs
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Re: RiskAssess chemical codes

Post by Matt_Coffs »

Merilyn1 wrote:As an independent school, we do not have to follow CSIS. Riskassess is up to date, whereas the only copy of CSIS that we have access to is nearly 20 years old. So lots of changes to chemical classification in that time that Riskassess is considering when determining the year code. If you don't have access to a new version of CSIS (I have no idea when independent schools will get access to this hallowed document), you need to use common sense and use the most up to date information available to you.
Hi Merilyn,
If your schools is a member of The Association of Independent Schools they provide an electronic copy of the CSIS through their website (it's not the "NEW" one we're waiting for but it may be newer than your hardcopy). https://www.aisnsw.edu.au/
You need to request a login to the website to gain access but if your school's a member you should be able to get access.
Merilyn1
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Re: RiskAssess chemical codes

Post by Merilyn1 »

Thanks, Matt. I didn't know about this at all. I will chase up the login details and have a look. Appreciate your help!
bigmack
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Re: RiskAssess chemical codes

Post by bigmack »

We just signed up to Risk assess.I got assess to it yesterday , I'm the first :crazy:
You Beauty I thought as I went to print some labels \:D/
Chem teacher doing a senior Prac from the new Nelson "Chemistry in Focus"

Went to print out labels for 0.05M Potassium Dichromate and 0.05M Potassium Chromate as per the text book to find that they are both teacher only according to Risk assess . :-o

So who has it wrong ??? Are Nelson not running their Pracs through Risk assess before Publishing or is Risk assess way to ridiculously over Cautious that Senior Pracs can't be run.

I can see this going down well with the Chem teacher.
I know that as a Public School we can still use the CSIS and its DETRA codes but surely Nelsons Text books were written for all schools to use including Privates that would I assume be mostly using Risk Assess now
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Labbie
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Re: RiskAssess chemical codes

Post by Labbie »

Risk assess is over the top, so we were told, its really for very very large amounts. Not the amounts used in schools, Again if you are DoE school its the CSIS that you have no choice but to follow. Sorry Bigmack but that is all I know.
Regards Labbie

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macca
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Re: RiskAssess chemical codes

Post by macca »

We use Risk Assess and it's up to date, we are a private school and told if we are using then that's what we have to follow, it is designed for Schools.
Text books are so out of date by the time they are published or incorrect we have found. Our Teachers were a bit hesitant at first years ago now. There is nothing that cant be done with lower molarity that we have found or substitutes. Even Lead, colbalt etc all still work. Good luck, we have been using for years and love it.
bigmack
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Re: RiskAssess chemical codes

Post by bigmack »

Labbie wrote: 13 Oct 2020, 09:52 Risk assess is over the top, so we were told, its really for very very large amounts. Not the amounts used in schools,
That's what I thought was the case for Chemwatch , but I thought Risk Assess was designed with School Pracs in mind ....surely small amounts are factored into that .

Oh well , looks like I may print labels off Risk Assess as it seems to have all the GHS right and just use a colour sticker according to CSIS .

Incidentally 0.02M potassium Dichromate turned out to be orange dot ( 11-12)

I guess the real problems will start when the teachers start writing up pracs on it .

Sorry probably off topic Macca , but how hard is the booking system on it to use from a Labbies point of view . None of us have a clue where to start .
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Labbie
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Re: RiskAssess chemical codes

Post by Labbie »

Incidentally 0.02M potassium Dichromate turned out to be orange dot ( 11-12)
WOW that is over the top.
Regards Labbie

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Labbie
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Re: RiskAssess chemical codes

Post by Labbie »

potassium dichromate*
. . . solution <0.5%
7-12
1
2
3
-
5
-
-
6.1

Not Hazardous II 1479
7778-50-9 Not hazardous according to Worksafe criteria. Should not be ingested. Use eye and skin protection when splashes can occur.
Disposal: Waste solutions of this chemical may be disposed of down the sink (to sewer).

42


Other concentrations:
potassium dichromate* potassium bichromate

Taken from online CSIS
Regards Labbie

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macca
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Re: RiskAssess chemical codes

Post by macca »

Bigmack it's easy! Like I said I love it.

Stick to your guns with time frame for ordering and if they are taught to do it properly from the start it will make it so much easier. Watch the video and should be How to use section as well from memory.

If there are any problems I don't sign my section until it is correct I usally grab teachers as they go past to fix them. Once they are correct and you sign off I generally wait and see how the prac goes, then if they haven't had to get anything off me that they have forgotten and it runs well I allocate a Gold Star. Once it has a gold star teachers can re-use each others without any problems allowing for individual needs of their class.

You can still recall pracs., from previous years etc., so once you have a good bank of Risk Assessments it makes it a lot easier. Remembering it is their Risk Assessment they need to do it you can guide them.

Works well if kids or teachers say so and so didn't do or teach that, you can look it up yeah they did on the 9th March p2 in lab 3 lol. No getting upset if a lab is double booked it's time stamped. Which also helps when they try to say I did that of Thursday and it's time stamped Sunday 8pm for p1.

Again I love it. play around with it
Merilyn1
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Re: RiskAssess chemical codes

Post by Merilyn1 »

Hi Bigmack
Yes, you're right with the Chemwatch thing being over the top - designed for industry, not schools. Riskassess is definitely designed for schools. Phillip Crisp who owns Riskassess, worked on the original CSIS. He is familiar with the coloured dot system and Riskassess is up to date in terms of year groups. He is using the same system that is used in CSIS, based on the UN classification of chemicals which have changed a lot in the last 20 years rendering CSIS very much out of date.

If your system says you MUST use CSIS, then you are in the clear if you continue to do so, however, imagine hearing about a student who develops an illness from using a chemical that could have been prevented. Not a load I would like to carry. I would rather ignore out of date directions and use common sense ie, use the most up to date information you have available.

We use Riskassess here. I love it. As teachers order pracs it is automatically added to the schedule and as Macca said, it is time and date stamped so no argument about when the prac was ordered. I also use Riskassess for my own risk assessments for preparing chemicals or other higher risk activities eg cutting glass tubing. Message me if you want some details on how I do that.

The labelling function is excellent. Chemwatch labels have way too much information on them and I have encountered errors, although that may have been a thing of the past. I haven't looked at their labels since Riskassess introduced their's. If ever in doubt about how much information is required on small labels, Safework NSW has information about this including a code of practice (the name of which I've forgotten!)

The support from Riskassess is also very good. Email them if you have any problems.
MariaQ
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Re: RiskAssess chemical codes

Post by MariaQ »

Totally agree with you Merilyn1, we have a duty of care, if we know there is more up to date information than CSIS it should be used, who would blindly follow a document that is so out of date.....MariaQ
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