When does a risk assessment need to be done?

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Samantham
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Joined: 06 May 2016, 10:18
State/Location: NSW

When does a risk assessment need to be done?

Post by Samantham »

Hi All,

Can you guys please help me figure out what is what. I'm a Lab Assistant in a NSW Independant School. I have teachers who are resistant to risk assessments. I have been telling them that legally they must put a riskassessment in for the day they do the prac and if they need to continue the prac they must put in a riskassessment the next day they do it. All my teachers refuse to put in a second riskassessment for pracs they are continuing and there is also some teachers who "run out of time" to do riskassessments and do the pracs anyway last minute with no documentation at all. Some also believe that because they've done a riskassessment years ago it still covers them now. I've been trying to encourage them to put in their riskassessments properly for 2 years now with little success. I'm worried now that maybe I am liable.

Am I right in how riskassessments are to be lodged on the day of every task done? Am I liable? Any suggestions on how to encourage the teachers to do things right?
linotas
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Re: When does a risk assessment need to be done?

Post by linotas »

No, you are not liable. Document that you have asked them to do a RA and do a RA on your preparation of the prac and that will discharge your duty under the WHS act. Do you use a RA program? Many on here use RiskAssess. It is quick and easy for the teachers to do and allows them to put multiple dates on the same RA if the same class (under the same conditions) are doing the prac. It also has a Lab Tach scheduling function so my teachers have to put a RA in as their request for a prac. No RA, No prac prepped!

You can always quote the act to them:

Australian Capital Territory, New South Wales, Queensland and Northern Territory
According to the Work Health and Safety Act 2011, a duty is imposed on a person "(a) to eliminate risks to health and safety, so far as is reasonably practicable, and (b) if it is not reasonably practicable to eliminate risks to health and safety, to minimise those risks so far as is reasonably practicable ... taking into account and weighing up all relevant matters including (a) the likelihood of the hazard or the risk concerned occurring, and (b) the degree of harm that might result from the hazard or the risk ..." [Part 2, Sections 17 and 18].

RiskAssess reason for doing them:

The most compelling reason for using RiskAssess is that, according to the Work Health Safety Act in Australia, science departments are required to carry out risk assessments of their science experiments before performing them. According to the Act, risk assessments must be carried out "taking into account and weighing up all relevant matters". In the case of science experiments, this would include the facilities available, the behaviour of the class, students with special needs, students with allergies, etc. These factors may, and commonly do, vary from class to class. The only way to meet the legal requirement fully is to carry out a separate risk assessment for each class for each experiment. This would seem like a huge job if you did it on paper, but doing it electronically with RiskAssess is actually quite easy. RiskAssess also offers advantages in terms of improved communication between Teachers and Laboratory Technicians and also includes a scheduling system, which is especially favoured by Laboratory Technicians. In New Zealand and in the different Provinces of Canada, legislation exists which imposes the same requirement, either stated explicitly or implied. It is also logical to think about what might go wrong before you do something, and to introduce systems that make laboratories safer.
Samantham
Posts: 136
Joined: 06 May 2016, 10:18
State/Location: NSW

Re: When does a risk assessment need to be done?

Post by Samantham »

yeah we do have riskassess, and I love it but the teachers don't always use it is my problem :(

But thanks for the quotes. They may be useful.

I'm not actually allowed to say to teachers "no RA, no prac". Have wanted to for 2 years, but even my HOD does it as well as some of the other staff.
Shell1
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School: SJBC
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Re: When does a risk assessment need to be done?

Post by Shell1 »

I always tell my teachers no risk assessment = no prac. It didn't take them long to realize that I meant it. It helps also to have a coordinator that is on board and backs you up. I also stated the personal and school fines that could be imposed on them if there was an accident. Don't have any problems now.
linotas
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State/Location: TAS

Re: When does a risk assessment need to be done?

Post by linotas »

Yes sometimes you have to make it about the money. I have had to in the past, mention the individual penalties and the schools penalty for not complying to the Act. Does your school have a compliance officer? You could bring your concerns up with them and casually mention you are concerned that teachers are putting themselves and the school at financial risk by not complying. Let them do their own research and come to the right conclusion. This is what happened at a school I worked at. After they mandated RA's were to be done on all pracs it was picked up by the system (Catholic) and now every catholic school here is required to do a RA on all science pracs.
Merilyn1
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Re: When does a risk assessment need to be done?

Post by Merilyn1 »

Nicely said Linotas!
They do need to do a risk assessment every time the circumstances change - so a different class would require a new risk assessment. If they are continuing with a prac from the day before, or even the week before, there would be no reason to complete a new risk assessment.
If they have previously done a risk assessment for a prac, they can use it as a basis for a new one but it needs to be signed and dated appropriately - two years ago would not be appropriate as Linotas has pointed out due to the change in circumstances.
Teachers should not be doing pracs without a RA, but we are not the policemen, that is up to your HT to enforce. Just make sure you do RAs for putting the prac together. This is where Riskassess is useful - I use it to do RA for tasks that are not prac-specific, e.g. making a copper sulfate solution that many classes will use. In the meantime, continue to highlight it to your HT and if they do not respond, either go to your WHS committee or a senior support person with your concerns.
Samantham
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State/Location: NSW

Re: When does a risk assessment need to be done?

Post by Samantham »

I'm on the WHS committee :-( :-| :whistling2: :hitthefan:
Merilyn1
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Re: When does a risk assessment need to be done?

Post by Merilyn1 »

That means you are in a position to do something! Be positive!
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melsid
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School: PHS
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Re: When does a risk assessment need to be done?

Post by melsid »

Surely there is something in your job description along the lines of "follow correct WHS procedures" or words to that effect? That way you can refuse to issue pracs without an up to date risk assesment as that would not be following the WHS procedures!
linotas
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Re: When does a risk assessment need to be done?

Post by linotas »

It it is brought up to the WHS committee then it should be documented as an action item and then something will have to be done about it.
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Kathryn
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Re: When does a risk assessment need to be done?

Post by Kathryn »

Hi
Back to this never ending topic. I have a teacher reviewing our risk assessment policies. Currently the procedure is that the teachers sign off on one RA per topic - so this covers everything they are going to use in that topic which may run over several weeks. She is wanting to know if there is any actual WRITTEN legislation which says that RA's must be done for EVERY single experiment.
Merilyn1
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Re: When does a risk assessment need to be done?

Post by Merilyn1 »

But wouldn't they have to break it down into a prac by prac basis anyway? Otherwise how could they be properly assessing the risks of each prac? It sounds sloppy and lazy to me - leaving them open to problems if something goes wrong. I'm not sure of the relevant legislation. I will keep looking and find something that will be of use. I've just got a few other things I need to do at the moment. What I do know, is there won't be written legislation specific to school science pracs, the general requirements will need to be interpreted for each workplace.
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Kathryn
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Re: When does a risk assessment need to be done?

Post by Kathryn »

But basically the risks for using bunsens or 1 M HCl etc are going to be the same every time for a particular class
Merilyn1
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Re: When does a risk assessment need to be done?

Post by Merilyn1 »

That's true. But there are issues when the combination of different chemicals can produce products of varying hazards. Teachers should also be doing a risk assessment on the chemicals produced.
Otherwise, as long as the circumstances remain the same, one risk assessment can suffice. It just sounds like a difficult way of doing things and creates a situation where items can be missed. This will put pressure on you to ensure their risk assessments are marrying up with their orders - although it is not our job to ensure teachers have completed risk assessments for pracs.
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smeee
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Re: When does a risk assessment need to be done?

Post by smeee »

Kathryn - Hope this helps and makes your staff understand - this is from Phillip Crisp . . . .

To answer your question . . .
The requirement is implied by current legislation.
There is no way to satisfy it otherwise.
To explain:

According to the Work Health and Safety Act 2011, a duty is imposed on a person
(a) to eliminate risks to health and safety, so far as is reasonably practicable, and
(b) if it is not reasonably practicable to eliminate risks to health and safety, to minimise those risks so far as is reasonably practicable
... taking into account and weighing up all relevant matters including (a) the likelihood of the hazard or the risk concerned occurring, and (b) the degree of harm that might result from the hazard or the risk ...
[Part 2, Sections 17 and 18]

This means that, for a class in a science lab, the "relevant matters" would include:
* the facilities available [e.g. fume cupboard for preventing release of toxic gases]
* the behaviour of the class [a big factor in determining what can be done safely!]
* students with allergies [a critical factor, on occasions]
* students with special needs [may require additional teaching support and experimental variations]
* training of the teacher [e.g. some may have training in microbiology, others no training in physics]
* etc

Since each class of students at each location may be different (and commonly will be!), a separate risk assessment is required.

Again implied by the legislation is the general rule that you need to do a new risk assessment whenever something changes.
In this case, there may be a new "relevant matter" that needs to be considered.
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macca
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Re: When does a risk assessment need to be done?

Post by macca »

Great Answer

I have another question, we use Riskassess. When it clearly states "teacher only" it would be of my understanding that would make it a demonstration not teacher to distribute chemical to students. Just walked in on one kids using; she gave them, not in the fume cupboard and no gloves. After teacher was repeatedly told no.

What do you all think?
:banghead2: :banghead2:
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DavidPeterson
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Re: When does a risk assessment need to be done?

Post by DavidPeterson »

We also use RiskAssess..."Teacher only" is pretty self-explanatory!
DCP 8-)
STEM Resource @ Laboratory Manager
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Merilyn1
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Re: When does a risk assessment need to be done?

Post by Merilyn1 »

If the teacher plans on using the chemical outside of the recommended usage (i.e. 7 to 12, 11 to 12 etc) they need to consider the hazards and take appropriate steps to reduce the risk. They could make these notes in the box where they sign off. Riskassess has a provision for a supervisor/HT to sign off on the risk assessment at the bottom, which should be done in these situations.
Given they were using the chemical with no PPE and no fume cupboard, they obviously have no understanding of chemical safety. I would bring it to the attention of your HT. Hopefully it wasn't the HT!
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macca
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Re: When does a risk assessment need to be done?

Post by macca »

:redcard: HT!
Merilyn1
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Re: When does a risk assessment need to be done?

Post by Merilyn1 »

Ouch!
Make a diary entry about what you saw (or use Onenote or something similar) and walk away.
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