URGENT request for help!

[chocolatepot2003]

Hi everyone.

I work at a public High School and my school has almost 1200 students and 11 science teachers.

I started at my school 2.5 years ago. My HT very rarely puts in orders (he feels he is far too busy to waste time ordering stuff when he can just grab it himself), even though he is the senior chemistry and biology teacher with more complicated pracs!

I tried to bring in the procedure of ALL teachers putting in orders with 24 hours notice.

My HT has kicked up a stink about 'my way' and he has told staff that they will be 'transitioning' in 2017 to a system whereby teachers DO NOT need to put in orders if they choose not to (but are free to order pracs if they prefer). I am against this because of the chaos this will cause for my role as lab technician. I will not be able to monitor what chemicals are being given to students (I recently had an incident where the Yr 10 teachers wanted to give the kids Ammonium Nitrate in powder for which is for Yr 11 & 12 ONLY!). I have also overheard a teacher asking the HT if he could make gunpowder, to which me HT said YES!!! (OMG!!) even though it says in our chemical safety that the demonstration of explosives is forbidden in a school! I also will not be able to keep track of equipment and who has what, etc.

He also complains that I say 'no' to the teachers about equipment (I limit my teachers to usually 8 groups). So, if a teacher wants 30 beakers (even though the kids can rinse and re-use) then I am not allowed to say no and I must give them what they ask.

My question to you all is this...is there any of you that allow a teacher to "get whatever they want when they want"?

OR...

Do your teachers have to put in prac orders? If so, in general how many hours notice do they need to give you?

ALSO...

Do you limit the amount of equipment that goes out to the teachers? I am thinking here of cost as well due to breakages and if ALL 30 kids are being given chemicals!!

Any responses will be GREATLY appreciated!

Kind regards,
Kris

[pkij]

Oh dear this sounds like an intolerable situation and shows a complete lack of respect for your position. My advice is to take this higher (Principal or Deputy, whoever deals with curriculum and "naughty teachers" but back yourself up with evidence, particularly when it comes to flaunting health & safety. This head teacher needs to realise this is 2016 and there are bullying and harassment laws as well as Work, Health & Safety laws!
I ask for at least 24 hours notice and we use "Risk assess" for prac orders, I am also the Safety Officer for the College so I ask questions if I think a prac is unsuitable or unsafe. I do offer alternate suggestions usually though. Some teachers think they can just come in and grab stuff I put an end to that very quickly, it is impossible to do my job otherwise for the reasons you state. Too bad if they don't like it! I definitely limit equipment and the max groups teacher ask for is usually 8.
Saying that I have a good relationship with the Leadership of the College and they do respect my opinions I think. I hope you can work this out so that you can receive the respect you deserve.

[Merilyn1]

Hi Kris
A difficult situation! Where I currently work, ALL teachers have to order ALL pracs. Even if they are just using scissors and glue. I have a 24 hours notice policy on simple pracs where all the equipment/chemicals are available "off the shelf" anything requiring preparation is 48 hours. Weekends don't count. I have a teacher who does some admin work so is often busy. He will put in a late prac but come down and help me put it together. I'm okay with that, but would prefer just being given more notice. He did provide me with a good example at a recent interview, but I digress!

It is a requirement under WHS legislation that a risk assessment be done by the teacher, before the prac is carried out. If the teachers are not placing order, are they doing their required risk assessments?

The system this HT is trying to impose is completely unworkable for you. You cannot plan your week if you don't know what it is going to be thrown at you. If the teachers are getting their own equipment out, will they be putting it away when they are finished? What happens to the poor teacher who does the right thing and orders the equipment to only have it pinched by another teacher who has adopted the self-serve practise?

As for the amount of equipment - we work on 8 per class. I will give them extra glassware if requested because I know they try to avoid this if possible. With all their faults here, they are not entirely inconsiderate.

What do the other teachers think of this proposed system - to use the term loosely? Are there any teachers on your side you would stand up for you and support your opposition? If not, what about your support staff supervisor? They need to be told what is going on and the problems it will cause for you. It is also a WHS issue, not only for the reasons you point out but also it prevents you planning your work, thereby increasing the risks of an accident.

You need to be firm on all this for your own long term sanity.

[remlap12]

Hi Kris,
Wow that all sounds like a nightmare!

I have one teacher here who likes to "fly by the seat of her pants", but she will only do that with simple pracs.....she isn't very organised and often decides to do a prac that morning, but as I said it's only ever basic things. If she has an involved order she will always put it into risk assess with plenty of notice for me.
Also, we are only a small school, I couldn't imagine the chaos that would be caused with 1200 students!
My HT also is a little last minute, and will often just grab stuff, especially physics gear, but as she is the only physics teacher it doesn't really affect anyone else.

I really feel for you! You definitely need some backup there.
Best of luck.

[J]

A little gunpowder in a particular part of this HT's anatomy might be appropriate here!!
When I see these posts about how much trouble labbies have with their faculty and/or school, I feel very blessed. Most of our staff appreciate my skills and whatever knowledge I can contribute. If I say "no", then it's not going to happen, unless we can tweak it to make it workable. Being a small school I'm sure makes a huge difference - we all know and respect each other.
J

[gotolady]

What a terrible situation ...I can't get my head around the teachers not ordering unless they have their own labs that are fully stocked with EVERYTHING they need.
No! It just doesn't make any sense.
I try to insist on 24 hours notice but fail miserably most days. The teachers certainly wouldn't help themselves but try late orders on me. They also would never put equipment away and they don't have access to the chemical store, so that lets them out of getting their own chemicals. I have a hard time getting some teachers to return equipment but find that playing dumb (sometimes not that hard a task) and asking in front of all the staff if anyone has seen the lost equipment...try to embarrass and shame them into returning equipment.
I think I would have to ask the HT if they were serious about not ordering and if so, then taking the situation to someone higher up, maybe WHS committee and your office manager.
Sorry but it really worries me that a HT could be so unprofessional and basically stupid and disrespectful to you and your job.

[vickir]

Kris.....this sounds terrible for you. What happens when a teacher is getting his/her own equipment for their prac and a chemical solution needs to be prepared? Will the teacher prepare it? It sounds like your head teacher is implying that a lab assistant isn't required. As we know that a big part of our jobs are preparing pracs for teachers.
As you say your in a NSW DET school, is your SAM approachable? As we are SAO's and come under the SAM as well as the Science H/T I definitely would be speaking to her about the situation as well. Good luck.

[smeee]

So wrong on so many levels -
Bullying
Harrassment
Breaches of health and safety to other staff and students
Teachers using chemicals that they aren't trained in
Unsafe practices
The list goes on and on
If anything goes pear shaped, the Principal is the person conducting the business and will be held responsible.
Leave a paper trail otherwise if you are aware of these things and deemed not to be doing anything then you too are part of the chain of irresponsibility.

[Xenon]

Insist on teachers putting in risk assessments for pracs. If the activity is not compliant with CSIS, eg. a chemical is inappropriate for the year group, don't sign (if using RiskAssess). We can't manage the lab if teachers are helping themselves to the resources. If your HT doesn't accept this, maybe find another school.

[Labbie]

This is just awful, go to your SAM, do not think the union would help any.

[chocolatepot2003]

Oh...one more issue came up in today's faculty meeting because one of my teachers (actually a supportive one!) passed on to the science staff that there is to be NO pracs during the last week of Term 4.

The current acting HT (who has only been at this school for 2 terms) said "No...she is not getting time off. She doesn't need time off to clean. She is not going to get away with this." I am just devastated that I seem to have absolutely no rights and there is absolutely no respect for anything I need to get done, etc.

So...do you get time off prac orders at the end of each term (to clean up, etc) and if so, how many days do you get at the end of Term 1,2,3 & 4. (I have been asking for 2 days to clean/tidy up Term 1, 2 & 3 and the whole of the last week for Term 4)

Thanks again,
Kris

[Merilyn1]

Kris - I get nothing. The only way I get to clean at the end of the year is the students have days away from classes towards the end - assembly, presentation, day activity day. Then we have a couple of days with no students at all. I hate the end of the year as teachers start wanting to do "fun" pracs, fun for everyone except me as it usually means having to go to the shop and usually means it's messy and needs lots of time to clean up. The teachers talk about getting students to help clean labs at the end of each term but this rarely happens. So you're not alone on that front. I'm sure there are plenty of other labbies who are in the same boat. You could probably deal with this attitude except it sounds that your stress cup has runeth over with everything else that is going on.
This person that is acting HT - are they likely to be there next year? If they are, I agree with Xenon, find another school. I think working in the office would be better than how you're being treated in science.
I'm constantly being reminded this week of why I'm moving on.

[shaz.H]

Hello Kris,
Any body reading this would feel nothing but empathy for you,I am sorry .Apart from you talking to the powers that be,I would like to encourage you to maybe start small.
In the middle of their staff room table or somewhere central can you put a pile of paper order forms with pens and maybe if you like a pkt of biscuits(entirely up to you).
BIG SIGN-Science Orders please
put some more in each lab and as you walk in the prep room.
Reiterate to the teachers when they ask for something that you are only too happy to accommodate but please write it down for you because you have two other things you are just doing at this second and then you will grab it for them.Really push for the need for them to write it down as their doing their lesson plan so you can then have the order.
Asking for them to photocopy the practical with the items required and then write the period etc on the paper to give you.
We use Riskassess also and although you don't have it...yet., mention it always, oh whats the risk assessment for that? have you checked the Risk assessment? get them used to the language.
Truly there is only one of you, communication is the absolute key, they have to know that as an assistant of eleven teachers you require your pracs to be ordered so you can keep control of where things are.
Cleaning at the end of Terms for me is always done per chance of a clean classroom, recess, lunches,quick clean after school. We have pracs right up to the last day of every Term but no messy ones on the last day.
If you already do all you can, you know you are going to have to sit down with the HT and someone else? and try to write up an adequate procedure that will benefit you.
best of luck
shaz

[tuesday]

We too have 1200 students and 13 Science Teachers but they ALL MUST fill out their RA and if the prac is simple they can order 3 lessons before but they must check with me first to make sure it's not crazy that day but in general it's the day before and as for more complex ones they see me while booking it in a few days before hand. It's rare that they just come in and grab and they definitely don't with the Chem-store.
With the changes in the WH&S laws you can't afford for this to happen.
We get the last week of term to clean up form the year, put things right, fix up labs and just make sure all is done ready to start next year. But saying this we don't have any students here during that last week

[vickir]

Kris
As you are in a NSW DET school, the last Monday and Tuesday of Term 4 are pupil free days, maybe you can get some cleaning done on these days. I'm lucky at my school as the students are out of the school doing 'fun' activities on the Thursday and Friday of week 10 so this is when I clean and tidy the labs. I work in a school with 800 students and 9 teachers.
When I read your comments, I am so pleased to work with such good teachers, who always thank me for the work I do and usually give me gifts at the end of the year. I'm assuming your teachers don't do this!!

[trish armstrong]

I would be keeping a diary, asking for "Quotes" or instructions to be written or emailed to you.
Keep a paper trail.. As it sounds border line Bullying.
Also for your own sanity remember you are a lab assistant, to me an assistant should be told on a daily basis what to do. As you are assisting the teachers. Maybe if you act dumb and went to them every morning and asked what he wanted you to do today? things might change.
Besides its not your budget that they are wasting. He is responsible. And if you go home and the place is dirty from lack of time, not your fault as he is meant to guide you.. as you are the Assistant! LOL
If you were titled Manager that would be a different story.
Cheers Trish

[chocolatepot2003]

I am so pleased to work with such good teachers, who always thank me for the work I do and usually give me gifts at the end of the year. I'm assuming your teachers don't do this!!

Nope...the teachers give me nothing!!

[sunray18]

GIVE UP CLEANING... simple.. tha tis what is stressing you out then do not do it!
I have worked at this school for over 16 years and the end of year was awful, with teachers wanting fun pracs which made messes and me trying to clean and make sure all was away for the holidays and so the cleaners could do all the floors.. I also had to clean all the windows inside and out [Head teacher insisted on this]
LAST day of the term every year saw all the other staff having morning tea and giving gifts and then going off early for a big lunch, while I was still cleaning and at the end of the day I was the last person left - even the cleaners had gone...
SO a few years ago - I stopped being the only fool in the school.. IF the place needs cleaning - well I will do it next year, IF I have time....
RESPECT YOURSELF!
By the way, people, since when were we designated as cleaners??? Yes it is in our job description, but I have decided it is the most minor of the tasks to do...

[lizzieb]

Oh Kris, you have my sympathies and understanding, as have been in a similar situation for 7 years here. Thankfully 2 F/T teachers are good with prac orders, but sadly my best teacher is leaving and HT taking her senior classes. Help!
PM if you need to debrief, however I have no magic answers, even after all these years of trying.

[fibreweb]

Sorry Liz that I am taking your best teacher. Your loss is my gain.
We were all so thrilled to hear she was our new Head Teacher.
Looking forward to working with Gina, I was really worried about gaining a new Head Teacher after having the same one for 14 odd years.
My old head teacher was fantastic, coming to me several times a week wanting to "pick my brains".
He knew that I knew what I was doing and appreciated the wealth of knowledge you gain working for 17 years in the job.
I was worried I would get a new one like Kris has.
But all is well